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posted By Vinnie Johnson, 10 November 2008 5:10:37 PM
Please explain why you and S.Kyler are reporting polar opposite information on G.Wallace. I'm guessing since you and Mr. Kyler are the two in charge, you'd get your info straight. He reported in this morning's Early Report that L.Brown was not thrilled w/ G.Wallace's play and the fact that he mirrored J.Richardson's game made Larry Brown ready to trade G.Wallace. But now you report the opposite. So which is it? Was HW correct in the morning or in the evening?
posted By Bill Ingram, 10 November 2008 5:20:09 PM
We each talk to different sources throughout the day. I have been told several times that Brown and MJ were at odds over trading Wallace. MJ in favor, LB against.
posted By Bill Ingram, 10 November 2008 5:23:18 PM
Actually, if you go back and ready Steve's piece, we aren't in disagreement. He says Brown has been against a move . . .but might want to scapegoat Wallace in a trade. Steve's take on it is slightly different from mine, but the fact remains that Larry Brown has only been against a Wallace trade when asked about it.
posted By Barry, 10 November 2008 5:43:32 PM
Great story Bill...I really the Raptors should really take a gamble on Harrington...i feel like Andrea has more than enough time to take off and considering that he is a 1st overall also... and Wallace's contract is way too big and long (no homo lol)and their have enough of those(o'Neal,Bosh,Kapono etc.)so most definetly Al is their man
posted By Umair, 10 November 2008 5:53:09 PM
This is a nice report Bill, but i think the raptors whud give bargnani a second chance, he is showing signs of improvement and he is only 23
posted By E-ROC, 10 November 2008 5:53:30 PM
I wouldn't trade Gerald Wallace for Bargnani. The Bobcats need a low post scorer and Bargnani doesn't provide that. I think those Wallace rumors are out there just to get the feel of the trade market. I doubt he gets traded. Wallace is the Bobcats best player. The Bobcats better get something better than Bargnani. I'm not even a Raptors or Bobcats fan. Just seems like a bad match for the Bobcats. Again the Bobcats should only trade for a superstar and at the moment, there aren't any available.
posted By Rob_Z, 10 November 2008 6:11:25 PM
I've been a fan of this team for a long time, but they may never have a better shot at going deep into the playoffs than they do right now with Bosh looking like an MVP candidate and JO providing solid defense, rebounding and opening up the floor for the aforementioned Bosh. They also have a very good PG in Calderon, who is off to a great start statistically and they have the shooters to complement these players. What would make this team complete is a SF who can cut to the rim and make the occasional 3; I think Harrington fits the bill, and his contract is short/manageable. This is a win now situation and the Raps should deal Bargnani and maybe Kapono/Moon to G-State for Harrington and a young guy like Bellineli or Wright.
All I'm saying is the right trade could put this team at least in the conference finals because right now after Boston, it looks wide open in the East.
posted By Aaron J., 10 November 2008 6:14:05 PM
Bill, I don't think giving up Bargnani in exchage for either Harrington or Wallace is a great idea. Harrington, only has 2 years left on his contract and wouldn't offer the impact that the Raps would be losing in Bargnani(who could easily step into the starting role if O'neal or Bosh went down). Wallace has 4 more years on his contract and would come with his proneness to injury. Both would be an upgrade at the 3-spot, but neither would be worth the loss of Bargnani!
posted By Ali Younes, 10 November 2008 6:26:19 PM
I think acquiring gerald wallace from the charlotte bobcats could benfit the raptors a lot, for years they have been looking for an offensive threat from the 3 position, although wallaces contract is kinda hefty, it could go both ways, i also dont think toronto should give up on bargnani, hes just starting to find his groove so if they pull this deal off i dont think andrea should be involved
posted By Vic Vega, 10 November 2008 6:27:58 PM
I agree with Aaron, both Wallace and Harrington would be a big upgrade at SF for the Raptors but I don't think either one is worth giving up Bargnani. Andrea has really started to show improvement and looks like he might be "getting it" as far as being an NBA player. He is also the only big man behind JO and Bosh that could step in and start if either one were to get hurt, which given their history it is likely that at least one of them will get hurt at some point this season. The Raptors just need to work on getting Moon to play some consistent defense at SF and they should be in good shape, they don't really need more scoring.
posted By Bill Ingram, 10 November 2008 7:06:16 PM
So far we have a pretty good consensus that giving up on Bargnani might be premature. If, however, getting a talent like Al Harrington is a possibility it might be worth it. I agree tying up Wallace money limits this team. NOW - from a Charlotte standpoint I don't make the deal at all. I don't trade Wallace unless you're getting a post scorer back . . .
posted By Vic Vega, 10 November 2008 9:19:05 PM
At this point, the only way I would trade Bargnani is if the Raptors were getting back a wing player who can be at least an average defender and can create his own shot on offense, especially in the 4th quarter. Neither of the 2 guys mentioned fit that criteria so neither would solve the Raptors problems IMO. Right now the Raptors biggest problems are perimeter defense (which these 2 players would at least help with) and lack of a perimeter go to guy in the 4th quarter.
posted By Ryan, 10 November 2008 9:27:03 PM
To bring a GSW fan's opinion into the mix, Bargnani would be amazing for the Warriors. If he could bring consistent shooting, he would easily start at the 4 and switch to the 3 for Wright/Randolph to get PT. The current field goal percentages of the two expected scorers on the W's are 35% from Maggette (injured) and 38% from Jackson. Nellie probably misses having the spot up shooting from Dirk, and tried to force Harrington into that role. As for the Raptors, I would expect that Harrington would flourish playing at the 3 instantly after being moved out of Golden State. On a final note, Bargnani and Belinelli on the same team... wonder how much it would take to get Gallinari from the Knicks :P.
posted By Jeff, 10 November 2008 10:40:41 PM
While i agree that Bargnani has not proven himself worthy of a #1 overall pick, he is a 23 yr old 7' Euro center and should be given 5 full years to develop.
Colangelo knows this, and doesnt want to see another Sabonis playing for Don Nelson in GS, while he is stuck with SOFTY Al Harrington.
Wallace is nice (when healthy) as he can play above the rim, and at both ends of the court. Many thought his contract was very reasonable when he resgined. I understand the Raptors like him, as they considered him for TJ Ford instead of Jermaine O'Neal.
The Raptors are in a very tough spot in terms of their salary situation and lack of non-essential assets (they arent trading Bosh, Calderon or O'Neal), and i expect them to wait 30 games to see what they have, before making any deals.
I think Lindsay Hunter would be a good role player for this team, heading into the playoffs.
posted By Tam, 10 November 2008 10:44:24 PM
Don't give up Bargs. Instead of going after Gerald Wallace or Al Harrington, why not try to get Sergio Rodriguez! Short-term solutions are the reason the raps never competed when V.Carter was around.
posted By Jeff, 10 November 2008 10:50:01 PM
Plus, Raps need a SF that can rebound too. Harrington doesnt.
Wallace is a good rebounder when motivated.
posted By Arn Samonte, 11 November 2008 1:11:57 AM
Bargnani is going to be a superstar in the NBA. He needs more plays to be ran for him. A Bargnani trade is a bad idea. If Bargnani is traded I am no longer a Raptors fan!
posted By jason, 11 November 2008 2:55:05 AM
I don't think raptors need to apart with Bargani, because there have pretty much wing players in the league. Raptors do have some expiring contacts in Anthony Parkers, Joey Graham, they worth about 8 millions. So for a rebuilding team, if they want some salary dump, raptors can make a trade.
posted By jason., 11 November 2008 3:01:31 AM
continue). plus raptors are not going to win a championship this season, but if they want to go deep in playoff, look for Mike Miller, I like this player. I think Minnosta not really need him. So raptors can trade for him for Parker, Graham, plus, may be a first rounder( that will hurt the raptors).
I think this starting line up will be good enough for second round. signed B.wells for bench.
J.O'Neal, Chris Bosh, J.Moon, Mike Miller, Jose Calderon.
Bench: Andrea Bargani, Khris Humprines, Jason Kapono, B.Wells, may be second rounder, depedent on how Bargani and O'Neal working this season.
posted By jason, 11 November 2008 3:15:11 AM
if the raptor don't need to rush, here is the best plan. Trade Anthony Parker for Javaris Crittenton. He is a very nice player, but he won't have any playing time when behind OJ Mayo and Rudy Gay, Quinton Ross. Plus Memphis have two first round next season, so they really have no plan for him. He is 20, and have great potential. I think He needs raptors more than raptors need him.
posted By D Man, 11 November 2008 8:08:42 AM
The Raptors need to be more athletic and get to the rim more( a lot more!)There strength is their shooting particularily of the 3 point variety. The only player they should consider trading is Kapono. Best 3 point shooter in the league but not ver athletic and defense is average. BC should be reaching out to those teams that need perimeter shooting and start there.Remember all...the Raps are working from a bench of 7 not including your starters. You can make your first 5 of all star caliber however they can't all play 0+ minutes every night.
posted By Bill Ingram, 11 November 2008 9:59:39 AM
Don't ask me to explain it, but for some reason the Grizzlies don't want to part with Javaris . . .or play him, either. As for Bargnani - the point is well taken that as a Euro big man he needs time. Look at how terrible Dirk was for 2 or 3 years, but he became the MVP.
posted By Mike, 11 November 2008 10:51:13 AM
How about trading shawn marion to toronto, Barngani to Golden State, Wallace to Miami, and Harrington to Charlotte?
posted By Steve Brotherston, 11 November 2008 11:59:27 AM
AB is developing into an excellent big man - to trade him now makes no sense.
Al is a now backup in GS and they are dreaming if they think they're getting anything but veteran back-ups in return.
Might be crazy but JK and the Hump is all GS should expect - unless of course they believe Al is a starter (and they don't)
posted By Alex, 11 November 2008 12:14:42 PM
Bill, have you heard something specifically about Raptors looking to possibly move Bargnani as part of a potential deal, or was it the same speculation as elsewhere because the team has some problems on the wing and needs an upgrade? There's just so many issues that would come up for Raptors if they moved him. To wit:
Harrington or Wallace would certainly be an upgrade for the starting line-up, possibly even a major one - but the second unit, which is already struggling mightily at times would be completely depleted. At times Bargnani is the only player making things happen on the offensive end. I mean it's possible that the production that Wallce or Harrington would bring would make up for the second unit's shortcomings but I'm not sure that that's a risk management would take given how much the second unit has struggled already.
Bargnani also has shown vast improvement this season both on the defensive end and his shot selection, so I would imagine that before Raptors thought about moving him they would wait to either a) maximize his value as he continues to develop and showcase his potential or b) see if he may show flashes of full-time starter potential.
The other problem would be that trading Bargnani would leave an already thin team with no real third big-man - Kris Humphries is not ready to play big minutes and Toronto isn't known for hoisting solid ring-seeking free agents out of retirement or self-imposed exile - and given O'Neal propensity for injury and the fact that him and O'Neal can't both play 40+ minutes per night would leave Raptors with no real alternative at the 4 and 5. If O'Neal should go down - and this is by no means a stretch of imagination - with Bargnani Raptors would still have a chance to stay competitive; without him Raptors would have trouble holding down the fort defensively against all but the weakest of teams, and offensively would only have a perenially double-teamed Bosh on the inside. This means the team would have to go to strategy of last year, having to rely on their outside shooting which, even with Wallace or Harrington would not be good enough to win many games, as we likely would have moved Parker or Kapono as part of the deal and the remaining shooters would have trouble getting open because of a lack of another inside threat.
Yet another issue would be luxury tax which Raptors are right under - they would have trouble filling out the minimum requirement without going into tax which they, apparently, do not want to do as profitability is important to the organization which is the majority owner of Raptors, and pushing into tax territory may mess with those plans. As a final note, for what it's worth, Doug Smith, who has been right more often than not, claims that Collangelo is very unlikely to give up on/trade Bargnani at the moment.
posted By Jon, 11 November 2008 1:19:17 PM
Alex, I don't think Parker or Kapono would necessarily have to be part of the deal. If Colangelo drives a hard enough bargain they may have to except something like Joey Graham's expiring contract. Both Wallace and Harrington can play the 4 if someone is injured, but obviously they aren't a typical 4. The team would be small with one of them and Bosh up front, but probably still enough talent to get by for a while. If a key player is injured long term then you're in trouble, and that goes for most any team.
Bill, as a Bobcats fans I'm not really opposed to this trade. I agree that we need a post scorer, but considering the only thing we could possibly get is Eddy Curry, I'd rather have Bargnani. We don't need another out of shape big. The fact that he's 7ft and can shoot means for the first time the Cats can actually spread the floor. It's my belief that if you're 7ft and you can shoot then you can learn how to get some buckets down low. You've got a shooters touch and you're tall enough to get the shot off. You made the comparison to Dirk, and Dallas has had plenty of success with him as their only big who could really score. They didn't need a traditional post scorer to be a good team. I think Brown hates the idea of 7 footers shooting 3's(or anyone shooting 3's for that matter) but he loved Sheed so maybe he could deal with it. Brown is a pretty negative guy though, I'm not sure Bargnani would be able to build confidence under him. If you're not one of Brown's "favorite children" you're going to get thrown under the bus constantly, and I'm sure that's hard for a developing player to deal with.
posted By Chris Lemieux, 11 November 2008 1:31:05 PM
Despite his criticizim, Bargnani is a very special player.
I would not deal him for Gerald Wallace. Bargnani is a developing stud.
Toronto needs find a Legitimate back up Center... e.g. Jeff Foster, and move Bargnani to the Starting SF.
posted By ah123, 11 November 2008 2:25:45 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=2759~3249~635~2776~1026~990~308&teams=30~9~9~9~28~30~18&te=&cash=
posted By matt, 11 November 2008 2:50:34 PM
i dont think the roster will be depleted at all because if you do a Bargnani+graham for just Wallace you get to move moon to the second unit and all we would need is a centre. I hope this deal goes through wallace would be huge for this team in so many ways and might give bosh a reason to stick around in 2010
posted By George, 11 November 2008 6:35:00 PM
http://games.espn.go.com/nba/features/traderesult?players=976~3421~2763~2759~2433~2010&teams=28~28~28~10~10~10&te=&cash=
posted By sheldon, 11 November 2008 8:45:49 PM
I've always thought that toronto was trying to turns bargs into something he is not - a dominant low post player. If that was what they wanted LeMarcus Aldridge was available on draft day and he is more of a traditional low post player that everyone seems to want bargs to be.
I like that he shoots the three well and when in rhythm he is dangerous from beyond the arc. He needs to learn to pull up on his drives to avoid the charge and work on his finish around the basket which I think will come in time as suggested by his apparent improvement this year.
Any trade to any team should not involve Bargs because he really is the Raps only other big. But I'm not sure he shouldn't be a wing player full time on the offensive end at least.
posted By Dino Blogger, 11 November 2008 9:06:57 PM
Quick Fix to the Problem is not the answer So NO to both. Bargnani is just starting to show signs there is no way Colangelo moves him unless he is totally convinced he gets the small forward of his dreams in return
posted By Miguel, 12 November 2008 2:51:17 PM
Why all this talk of moving Bargnani? He's finally showing potential after a horrible sophomore season. Give the man some time. I refuse to believe that Al Harrington is all we could get for the kid.
If the Raptors really wanted Harrington, they can package Kapono and Joey Graham's expiring contract for him. On a a team that thrives on offense, Kapono would find plenty of open looks, and Joey needs a change of scenery (and perhaps a move to his more natural PF position) to be effective.
All those who think that you can slide Bargs into the SF position haven't seen tape of last year's playoffs against Orlando. Bargnani was absolutely murdered by the likes of Hedo and Rashard, as he doesn't have the foot speed to cover the 3. I shudder to think what LeBron would do to him.
posted By Johnny GoodGame, 19 November 2008 12:54:55 PM
I really would like to do what's best for Bosh and the NBA...and I think that would be to encourage Bosh's signing with the Cavaliers in 2010 to ensure The King staying put , and a dynastic team that fans could get behind...what say you fellow Raps fans?
posted By Jeff, 24 November 2008 12:43:19 AM
Why would the Raptors or Raptors fans want to see CB4 move to the cavaliers in 2010, with the expiring contract of J.O. at that time why not make a play for James after extending Bosh's contract in the summer of 09 and have a dynasty right here in Toronto?
posted By Rayroy, 3 December 2008 7:56:44 PM
What about dealing Bargs for Jeff Green & Saer Sene? The salaries match and the deal would give us a young SF with all-star potential, and Bargs could play PF with Durant at his natural SF spot. Sene would fill in as backup big man for us.
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