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posted By Todd, 30 June 2009 1:16:54 PM
I think that if the magic did offer that 4yr 35m deal that was generous, I don't see him making much more especially with no state tax here in Fl. I'd love to see him back, maybe he'll consider championship > slightly more money.
posted By BlazersFan, 30 June 2009 1:21:54 PM
OFF COURE I´D GIVE 10MIL FOR TURK BUT JUST 2YEARS MAYBE 3 MAX...HIS A CLUCH SHOOTER AND EXCELENTAYMAKER
posted By D-RAK, 30 June 2009 1:24:31 PM
first off I love Hedo but his post season was hardly fantastic!
he had 4 or 5 1-11 0-13 games, he's fun to watch and can run an offense well. that said he's a 5-6 mil a year player. you screwd up Turk! you could have been a Champ!
posted By quarantin from nowhere, 30 June 2009 1:30:02 PM
this is a biased article, this is on what he/do cant and couldn't.
it doesn't say for instance, for the sake of objectivity, that hedo is the top producer of magic in the finals. he has more assits than alston or johnston. even if jameer is in the game, no one is able to create the opportunity to score that he has easily created for his teammates. moreover the article is not able to see that hedo is the center of game action. he creates the flow. this is not something can be explained some no-brain pseudo-statistical abrakadabras. sorry guy. just look at the money peja got from hornets. then, speak. i dont mean that peja is a bad player, no deserving the money he has been given. but why this forced-pseudo-objectivity that begs not to give the money to the player named hedo, because he is not what he has seemed to us. non sense.
posted By hmmm.., 30 June 2009 1:32:13 PM
I'll pass on Turkoglu. I think he's one of the most overhyped players in the league. He's only good in certain systems, and quite honestly, he's just a passing Travis Outlaw. I just don't see him being worth 10 million a year for the next 4 or 5 years.
posted By @ quarantin from nowhere, 30 June 2009 1:39:11 PM
Dude, you need to calm the F down. Jason is one of the best writers on this site, so we don't need your psuedo-angry guy crap, mmkay Pumpkin? Step off.
posted By Jason Fleming, 30 June 2009 1:40:00 PM
Thanks for the love...much appreciated. Note to quarantine - it all depends on the type of offense you run and what kind of point guard you have whether or not Turkoglu is the right option for your team. The question remains - would you pay $10 million per for him?
posted By Are You Crazy?, 30 June 2009 1:58:50 PM
Turk is overhyped yeahright,Turk is underated im a Magic fan,and Turk was by far our most important offensive player,and im very mad that we will lose his playmaking ability.
posted By BBall_Jones, 30 June 2009 2:07:52 PM
The Pistons aren't the only team with that kind of money to spend on Boozer. The Grizzlies actually have the most cap-space in the league (about $20 million). But your points were valid. The Grizzlies won't be looking to pay Boozer $14-$15 million either.
Boozer can either stay with Utah and collect his final big paycheck, and see where the market is next year. Or, he can sign with someone else for less money per year, but a long term deal with some security.
posted By gates, 30 June 2009 2:10:50 PM
@drak. hedo 5-6 million guy? what kind of a world are you living, are you on drugs or something? I don't know any player who earns 7 a year and puts that much on the table. I know 10-15 guys who can't even come close to him.
Of course it's easy to be Jameer or Lewis in that league. No one argues your sky high salary if you are Lewis. And Nelson is treated like a superstar just because he played well for half season. If Nelson demands 10 a year you wouldn't write an article and question that Jason would you? I really don't know what else Hedo guy should do to see some appreciation from excellent analysts like you.
posted By Jason Fleming, 30 June 2009 2:12:00 PM
@ gates - Well, to be honest, I wasn't that excited when Nelson got the contract he did for the exact reasons you mentioned. Does that have bearing on how they approach Hedo now? Sure it does, but it's not something that will be changed. I think some people are missing the point here - the point is that Hedo's value is variable depending the team in question and the pieces that team has to put around him. Do you have a team with a PG who plays well off the ball and need another player to initiate offense? Then Hedo is a good fit. If you have a team that needs a scoring wing Hedo may not be a good fit - he isn't a (healthy) Peja. He needs the ball to be effective himself and to make a team better. And again, I haven't heard anyone say Hedo should be making $10 mil (or more on a contract with the normal annual raises) in four years... Like with Boozer, it would seem that that kind of market simply doesn't exist. that's not hating on Turkoglu as some would say - that's simply the reality of the market.
posted By gates, 30 June 2009 2:25:43 PM
Ok Jason so if it's about the system which team is a good fit for hedo other than magic?
posted By quarantin from nowhere, 30 June 2009 2:26:01 PM
what you say is again non sense. he can play the princeton offence, can play the triangle, can play, run & go, can play the set.he can play 1, 2, 3, 4..he can make some defense if his energy is up. You are accusing the turk for his last game in the finals..can you please show a single magic player that did not quit in that game? whye are picking him up, singling him out? Your money-men, those howards, lewises, nelsons...what did they do?
posted By quarantin from nowhere, 30 June 2009 2:29:54 PM
a note to jason fleming:
how many articles did you write other than this that you argue a certain player doesn't deserve the money he is offered or he intends to get?
why hedo? why this time?
did you write something similar when they gave the money to rashard lewis?
posted By Jason Fleming, 30 June 2009 2:31:00 PM
@ gates - of the teams with money? I'm not so sure I see one...which is the whole point. @ quarantin - check the archive, you'll find plenty of examples.
posted By quarantin from nowere, 30 June 2009 2:32:49 PM
"posted by @ quarantin from nowhere, 30 June 2009 1:39:11 PM
Dude, you need to calm the F down. Jason is one of the best writers on this site, so we don't need your psuedo-angry guy crap, mmkay Pumpkin? Step off."
he can speak for himself, cant he?
you calm down puppet!
posted By gates, 30 June 2009 2:33:03 PM
than why did he reject magic's latest offer? he can't be that stupid?
posted By quarantin from nowhere, 30 June 2009 2:41:49 PM
@jason fleming
checked, couldnt be able to find the one as biased as this, please you tell me.
posted By YA, 30 June 2009 2:42:38 PM
The Grizz should go after Turkey-glue. Let him run the point/foward with Mayo And Gay on the wings. Looks like a fit to me.
posted By Toolatecrew, 30 June 2009 2:46:52 PM
but that also says that on two-thirds of the shots he takes – inside the arc – he is going to miss more than half the time. Is that acceptable?
REALLY? Of SFs in the NBA only 3 Grant Hill, Wallace and Lebron make more half or more of their shots inside the arc. What does that say about your measure of "acceptable"
Carmelo Anthony's 2 point % is .455% and Hedo's was .445%. What does that say?
Hedo doesn't "take good shots". Well hsi 2% jumper % is very low at .38% but he doesn't take bad shots becuase only 10 players in the entire NBA a lower % of their shots as 2 point jumpers than Turk. He's not good at it. So he doesn't DO it. Contast that with a guy like Iverson who shoots 2 point jumpers nearly 60% of the time yet hits only 39% of them. Players who take alot of shots they don't make are bad. Hedo is not one of them. He doesn't take many shots he's not good at making.
posted By quarantin from nowere, 30 June 2009 2:47:46 PM
@jason fleming
there is a difference between saying a certain player doesnt deserve the money he is looking for and a certain player is not good as assumed. in this context, you may say that a certain player does not deserve the money, but it does not certainly mean that he is a bad player. but you cant say both. if you say, as you have already done, that means your objectivity is too fragile to your biases.
for me this discussion is over, thanks, good night.
posted By R., 30 June 2009 2:49:59 PM
I really think Turk is worth about 8-9 mill but for only a 3-4 year contact. The numbers of last year are what you can expect the next 2-3 years. give or take. But his shooting % isn't that big of a deal.
posted By Jason Fleming, 30 June 2009 2:52:00 PM
@ TLC - It would be a poor decision to base a Turkoglu signing purely on his shooting percentage, sure. Why would you? So you have take everything in totality. He's a decent shooter, not a great one. He's a decent playmaker, not a great one. All the more reason to question his value.
posted By R., 30 June 2009 2:52:01 PM
His Shooting % isn't that big of a deal. I've seen him in sac. He was behind about 6 other people. So not many opritunities.
posted By R., 30 June 2009 2:53:27 PM
And he just didn't fit in San Ann. It takes a shoot like a year to learn to play in SA. i don't know but look at brent barry and mike fin. took them a while. He was still behind Grant hill in Orlando for 2 years. I don't buy into the whole not a good shooter thing. Granted, he does take quite a few bad shoots, but he makes quite a few also
posted By quarantin from nowhere, 30 June 2009 2:55:29 PM
@R
versus lakers, he was above the level all king players were in playing terms. Rick Adelman, in hedo's rookie year, accepted that he should have played him more.
posted By R., 30 June 2009 3:01:39 PM
@ Toolatecrew.... Well said my good man. I agree.
posted By R., 30 June 2009 3:04:54 PM
quarantin from nowhere... I agree the should have played more. better than every King? i dont know. C-webb? anyways, i was saying he didn't get the best chance to do what he does. His #'s wern't the best cuz well... cuz yeah, Rick Addelman i suppose. But he can coach
posted By quarantin from nowhere, 30 June 2009 3:12:14 PM
@R
said, because i totally agree with you. he was given a chance by svg in orlando, and he used it to develop himself, and most important thing, he contributed to the team he is playing for in a unselfish way. he was behind peja, he was behind manu, both were fans' favorite then, he was behind hill who was way behind his primacy.
posted By D-rak, 30 June 2009 3:16:18 PM
heres the question do you want a 34 year old Turk on the books@ 10-11 mil when its time to sign D12 to a extention?
posted By Ed, 30 June 2009 3:17:39 PM
Turk yes in the right system is worth $10 million/year...but the length as Jason is stating defines if his contract is justified. A declining commodity becomes a deadweight in year 4-6 when the talent does not justify the price tag. Turk in Orlando, NY, Toronto, or LA (if Odom doesn't resign) offensive system would excel and the price tag of $10 million/year doesn't seem high..but only on a shorter deal....or its front loaded contract.
posted By kkalu, 30 June 2009 3:37:28 PM
Why can't the magic sign Hedo Turkoglu. Couldn't they extend his and/or Carter's contract to stay under the Cap or at least close? Wouldn't that be worth it to have the best starting five in basketball? Who could beat this lineup?
Nelson/ Johnson (williams, livignston, critterton, etc)
Carter/Redjerk
Turkoglu/Pietrus
Lewis/ Anderson
Howard/ Any able bodied active player
posted By Jason Fleming, 30 June 2009 3:48:00 PM
@ kkalu - The Magic have $67.5 million in committed contracts as of now, to eight players. They could re-sign Hedo still, but it would definitely put them into luxury tax territory.
posted By Bill Ingram, 30 June 2009 4:13:02 PM
Hedo is not a $10 million player. Sorry. Playing with the group he played with in Orlando made him better, but the team that pays him $10 million and doesn't have a premier center and multiple 3-pt threats for him to play off of will kick themselves later.
posted By come on..., 30 June 2009 4:21:31 PM
please... if you think that magic could make finals without hedo or replacing vince carter, then your comments make sense... but who watch the magic during the play-offs and has an idea about hoops, doesn't accept this... lot's of teams pay way too much for key players... and i am sure that percentages, head to head number comparisons etc is just small part of realty to go deep play offs... see t-mac's numbers and his teams results :-))
posted By Q, 30 June 2009 4:28:46 PM
@b.ingram
what? are you serious? Do you really think that Howard made him this player? What is his assist ratio to Hedo? Rashard? Jameer?
Is this link that you are hopelessly irrationally trying to refute that there is a relation between the rise in hedo's game and orlando's going into the finals in the last two years? I wanna know dude, really, from did you get this idea?
posted By Your mommas GM in the den with my feet up, 30 June 2009 4:30:15 PM
Hey Jason since nobody seemed to really want to answer your question... If Im building a team I dont add Turk at that amount. I love his game, his versatility is hard to find but I dont spend $10 mil. I would say the same thing about Lamar Odom, there are few in the game that give you that type of production but with both being 30, or damn near 30, that type of contract is not worth it for a player sure to decline in 2-3 years. The offer that Otis gave him was beyond fair. Hedo should command 7-9 mil a year for about 3-4 years but nothing more. I know the NBA is a business but the players need to understand just what it takes to put a championship team together. When a unit is as cohesive as the Magic shown they could be, why break that up? I mean really your gonna make 8 mil, is the extra 2 mil from another team that you dont have any chemistry with, or isnt a proven winner mean that much? Shouts J. Fleming love what you and the rest of the staff do. Like T.Pain at the BET awards - I wanna thank the haters
posted By Q, 30 June 2009 4:31:50 PM
@hoops
first fleming, then ingram, any other hoops writer to add himself to the list of hedo-bashers?
why, man, warum?
per que?
posted By Jason Fleming, 30 June 2009 4:44:00 PM
@ Q - We aren't bashing Hedo - he's a very good player at what he does, but his game isn't perfect for every team. You could make the same case for a lot of players - Lamar Odom was a good example. You just can't blindly say a player is worth a certain amount of money - unless they are on a Kobe/LeBron/CP3 level - because each team has different things they need. Could Hedo be worth $10 million the Magic? Quite possibly. Would he be worth $10 million to the Pistons? Probably not. Like it was said, it's about fitting the market.
posted By uofmprince, 30 June 2009 4:44:00 PM
Jason, you keep asking whether someone should pay Hedo 10M a year or not? My question to you is.... Would you pay 10M?
Personally I would. I mean do you think Rashard Lewis is more valuable than Hedo? Or let's say a guy like Richard Jefferson. What elsea guy has to do to earn a 10M+/year contract??
posted By Jason Fleming, 30 June 2009 4:46:00 PM
@ uofmprince - No, I would not pay him $10 million per year. $7-8, sure, if I was the GM of a team with a need for a playmaking small forward. Age is a factor, defense is a factor.
posted By come on..., 30 June 2009 4:46:22 PM
and you say paying 16M to VC, while you already have shard with similar numbers make sense and paying hedo 10M is not? really? think about kobe he is a superb player with fully respect, but i don't think he could ever get a ring without Pau... also you see lebron he is out of this world, but he doesn't have pau or hedo type player... these type of players increase the hoops iq of the team and that is the difference maker during high profile games... don't play with numbers and be respectful... i hope you get my point... if there is a fault in this magic process it will not be hedo's payment... you have to decide team by team, nobody has a value of his own... and hedo very well earn more than this from magic...
posted By Jason Fleming, 30 June 2009 4:48:00 PM
@ come one - I absolutely do see your point, and think we agree to a certain point. However, I can't throw Shard into the conversation because in this situation it's really not pertinent. His contract is signed and sealed, know what I mean? So is VC. The Magic already decided they are worth the given contracts. If money was no object, keep Hedo - absolutely. Keep a Finals team together. But, it is an object, and one the Magic have decided to deal with their way.
posted By Travis, 30 June 2009 4:51:59 PM
Hey Jason nice piece on Hedo but i wonder do you think he is a good fit in Portland ?
posted By Q, 30 June 2009 4:53:56 PM
@hoops, particularly fleming
so other than, kobe, le baron, cp, all nba players are useless, you can legitimizedly discuss how much money they earn, because they are not kobe or le baron. you are too smart to discuss with for a peysan like me, but you know this is a LEAGUE, it requires five players on the pitch, 12 on the roster. apart from your holy trinity, then, it means no player can claim a certain amount of money, because they are not this or that...
is this all you have?
how pathetic?
posted By Cervelli, 30 June 2009 4:57:43 PM
i think if the Mavs lost J.Kidd then Turk would be a good pickup and then you could play turk as a point forward and put Terry as the point and have J-Ho at the 2 and Dirk at the 4....they would just need a Center then
posted By come on..., 30 June 2009 5:05:45 PM
come on jason... we are talking about worth of a better player... and i said he worth for magic or similar several teams even more than what he asks for... if you accept then why are you try to speculate his numbers?... what i try to explain is, he has this worth and you wrote a lot of numbers to explain not... nobody says each team will pay this money for him but just who needs his strengths, but i think this is more then half of the league... there are just few guys has this high hoops iq, can play and not a superstar and asking for 20M... i think he worth what he asks and you? clear answer don't play with words please...
posted By Michael Curry, 30 June 2009 5:11:14 PM
If the Magic are going to roll the dice with a player like Vince Carter, don't they have to re-sign Turkoglu? Otherwise, where's the benefit?
If I'm Orlando, I'm thrilled with the current situation. With so many teams hemmoraging money, Turkoglu won't be able to find a big contract anywhere in the league. The Magic should be able to bring him back on the cheap.
posted By Q, 30 June 2009 5:12:11 PM
so once they signed you, then it is all right with fleming. he cant discuss rashard's or dwight's money, because it is given. will it mean, can we assume, if a team will pay hedo, then fleming will not discuss the situation, because it is a done thing. this is what you are trying to make us belive, this hypocracy?
posted By Jason Fleming, 30 June 2009 5:26:00 PM
@ Q - I'm not following you here, honestly.
posted By Q, 30 June 2009 5:36:06 PM
@fleming:
i am following your logic and double standarts.
posted By Toolatecrew, 30 June 2009 7:25:52 PM
I do not disagree that I would NOT give Turk 10 M a year especially not for 5 years. I understand why he would ASK for it given the foolish talk of 8-10 M for Ariza. I mean Turk is proven he deserves at least euqal to Ariza right?
While I don't disagree with the conclusion ..Turk isn't worth 10 M I disagree with the criteria used. Supposedly one reason he's not worth it is that he makes less than 1/2 his shots inside the arc. As I showed most SFs inclusding MANY that make 10 M or more don't make 1/2 their 2s either.
Turk is worth whatever someone is willing and able to pay him. There are only 4 teams with the capspace to pay him 10M. I doubt any of them do it. Therefore the Magic don't need to pay him 10 M to retain him. He's worth a bit more to the Magic becuase his skill set is needed. Nelson is not a pure point. Goodness knows they wouldn't have survived with Alston running things. Carter makes him expendable. Carter can be a second creator Best case is a sign and trade for some PF help for Howard so Lewis can move to 3.
posted By Toolatecrew, 30 June 2009 9:23:00 PM
You know what. Actually I would givbe Turk the ten mill. He is a star
posted By PY, 30 June 2009 9:24:00 PM
Its biased because this site is for magic fans and Hedo turned us down. He's not worth 10 mill, he should go join some scrub team like Portland or Memphis.
posted By gates, 1 July 2009 1:51:00 AM
so jason bill and other hw guys, I really hope magic doesn't resign hedo and than we will se what your nelson, lewis etc is capable of. we will see how their offensive flow will get hit and we will see the results same time next year even with VC. Hedo is definetly worth 10 mil. no doubt. mark my words. Just one year and you are proved to be wrong. I'll be here to remind you :)
posted By franky, 1 July 2009 3:47:00 AM
I would give 10 mil for 4 yrs in a heartbeat. he is underrated. and he sure has some enemies in hoopsworld.
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