In this edition of the NBA At 2: Will the Pistons free agent signings lead to trades?...Portland's pursuit of Hedo Turkoglu heating up…76ers shorting Andre Miller?…Upcoming HOOPSWORLD chats.
If Gordon in Detroit – Then What About Rip? With the rumors hot and heavy that Chicago Bulls free agent guard Ben Gordon is on the verge of an agreement with the Detroit Pistons, you have to ask: What does this mean to Rip Hamilton? The short answer is it probably means he gets traded.
While many have pointed out that Hamilton and Coach Michael Curry didn't see eye-to-eye on things, it's also worth noting Hamilton was less than happy (to put it mildly) when Chauncey Billups was traded to Denver last fall. Of course, Hamilton also signed a three-year extension at $12.5 million per that kicks in next year – which he may not have signed if he knew Billups was leaving.
If the Pistons do bring in Gordon, it will be to play shooting guard next to point Rodney Stuckey. At the dollars it will cost to sign him, he won't be coming off the bench, and it makes little sense to bring Rip – who will be more expensive – off the bench as well. So, that only points to the fact the Pistons are going to be even more active after they spend their cap space (reportedly after Charlie Villanueva or Hedo Turkoglu as well) because they will need to make trades.
It also looks like the Pistons won't be getting a true power player in free agency, with Villanueva being more of a hybrid type, close to an Antawn Jamison-styled forward (that's hardly a perfect comparison, but the point is he is more Jamison than someone like Paul Millsap).
So what do you do with Hamilton? Where does he make a good fit? Utah might be one place. Coach Jerry Sloan would likely get along well with Hamilton, but for a team facing the luxury tax already that might be a tough sell. They could trade Carlos Boozer and cut a million off the cap, but that would basically mean they would have to match any offer Millsap gets as a restricted free agent. It would also mean adding the $37 million on Hamilton's contract for the three years following 2009-10, plus whatever Millsap ends up making. Add to that, the Jazz will also have to decide what to do with Memo Okur next summer, when he will be an unrestricted free agent.
As of today, the Jazz look to have plenty of cap space in the summer of 2010 with only $38 million committed, but add a couple first round picks, Millsap's deal, and then add in Hamilton and Okur and they'll be over the cap again.
If the Jazz are sure this is the kind of team that would work, they should think it over – that's a big if though.
For the Pistons Boozer may not be their best option, but it might be worth it for a season even he leaves as an unrestricted free agent next summer because it clears off the long-term debt of Hamilton's contract.
They may have other suitors if they want to trade Hamilton though. He could fit with the Dallas Mavericks, possibly, (perhaps for Josh Howard?) if the Mavs lose Jason Kidd, plus there are a few other teams that wouldn't mind a reliable scorer like Rip Hamilton on their wings.
Whether this or any other scenario plays out for the Pistons, it's quite obvious that signing a couple free agents and getting a new head coach isn't all Joe Dumars has on his plate this summer. Those moves could just be the groundwork for the next ones.
Hedo Must Like What He Hears: Whatever the Portland Trail Blazers are telling Orlando Magic free agent forward Hedo Turkoglu, it must sound good to him. Fresh off the news that Portland hit up Turkoglu's agent at the earliest possible moment, ESPN's Marc Stein is reporting the courtship is being taken to the next level.
According to Stein, Portland head coach Nate McMillan is on a plane to Orlando to have a sit-down dinner with Turkoglu tonight, and then everyone will fly to Portland in the morning for more chats and a tour of the Blazers' practice facility a few miles southwest of the city.
Will the Blazers convince Turkoglu they have the right place for him to sign what is likely to be his final big contract of his career? Both sides must be on the same page so far, since all of this likely leaves little room for Turkoglu to get the hard sell from anyone else (namely the Detroit Pistons, who were also linked to him initially).
Word from sources close to the Blazers is that if the team does sign Turkoglu the deal won't be for the widely reported number of $10 million per season – no word on what it would actually be.
Sixers Shortchanging Miller? Philadelphia 76ers free agent Andre Miller isn't asking for a whole lot according to his agent, Andy Miller.
"We're not looking long term - 3 years," Andy Miller told Phil Jasner of the Philadelphia Daily News. "Jason Kidd and Steve Nash are likely to have contracts that will take them to 38."
Jasner points out the Sixers would prefer an even shorter term on the contract, but there is almost no way Andre Miller agrees to such a deal. Miller is 33 years old, so this could be his last chance for a deal worth bigger money. If he were to sign a shorter deal, or one with team options to make him an unrestricted free agent at 34 or 35, the likelihood of him finding a suitor willing to pay him the same amount he could make by signing a three-year deal this summer are slim.
Miller can still run a show as a lead guard, and do it very effectively. His 16.3 points a game last season was the third-highest of his 10-year career, his 4.5 rebounds a game near a career-high, his three-point shooting was a career-high (albeit only 29%), and he still dished out 6.5 assists a night. His scoring has spiked since his trade to the 76ers, mostly because in 2007-08 (17.0 a game) he was one of the key scorers and in 2008-09 he had to help make up for the loss of power forward Elton Brand to injury. Miller is most effective when expected to score in the 13-14 a night range and dish out to other weapons.
The thinking from most is next year, with a healthy Brand, a developed Thaddeus Young, and star Andre Iguodala, Miller's numbers could morph into 13 points and closer to eight or nine dimes a night.
If the Sixers insist on a deal shorter than three years, Miller will find that contract elsewhere, and the Sixers better hope that other team has a point guard they can trade in a sign-and-trade deal, because relying on Jrue Holiday to run the show isn't a good idea yet.
Upcoming Chats: HOOPSWORLD senior writer Tommy Beer will take your questions about the latest free agency rumors and truths tonight at 8pm Eastern Time. IMG Basketball's Mike Moreau answered questions earlier today and he is always entertaining – check out the knowledge he dropped here in the chat wrap. And if you want to get your questions in extra early, leave them now for my chat Thursday at 8pm Eastern.
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posted By Retnep, 1 July 2009 1:11:11 PM
If the Pistons couldn't trade Rip last year for a quality upgrade, why would they be able to trade him this year after signing him to a 3 year extension that will carry through until he's 35. Targeting Gordon makes no sense because the Pistons only have 1 PF and 1 C on the roster. Even adding CV only gives them 3 real big men.
posted By Reaper, 1 July 2009 1:17:03 PM
about the hedo article, interesting that he's stepped up talks with the blazers. the only thing i wondering is what are they gonna do with the logjam of sf they have i can see hedo going up in a sign and trade they also have a few draft picks in their roster. as for the miller article what are the 76ers thinking this guy held you almost trump the magic he's been a good addition to the team why do this to him?
posted By Stones Fan, 1 July 2009 1:17:07 PM
The Pistons weren't trying to trade Rip last year. His game has become too limited and he has become extremely high maintenance. I'll be happy to see him go. Also, for the record he signed his contract a few days after the Billups trade... so media outlets should stop suggesting that he was tricked into an extension.
posted By pete, 1 July 2009 1:32:45 PM
@ reaper, I think what Portland is planning on doing is trading Outlaw if they sign Hedo. You know us Blazer fans have been throwing out those trade ideas for some time now. The other areas of need for Portland are PG and a bench PF, so it's conceivable to say Blake and Outlaw could be dealt. Their salaries are about 7 or 8 million combined and expire after this season.
posted By HoopsDogg, 1 July 2009 1:33:26 PM
There's no way they trade Rip to Utah for Boozer. Utah can't afford Rip's long term deal. Now Boozer for a second round pick from Detroit, that idea has a lot more merit. Then Detroit has enough cap room to go after someone again next year. Chris Bosch anyone? An intriguing trade that might help both teams is Kirilinko for Hamilton. Honestly, though, I don't think Hamilton's going anywhere. Gordon's proven he can come off the bench, and he can play either guard spot. There are 96 minutes a night at the two guard spots. Playing Hamilton, Stucky, and Gordon around 32 a night seems about right (and Hamilton can play the three if you're playing small ball).
posted By PY, 1 July 2009 1:38:15 PM
If the Sixers let Andre Miller walk they will absolutely regret it. Anyone who watches that team can tell you that Miller makes that team go, without him they will be taking a serious step backwards. Sometimes the best addition a team can make is to resign their own players.
posted By Retnep, 1 July 2009 1:40:17 PM
@Stones Fan,
Last year was the year of 'no sacred cows' for Detroit. Dumars searched all summer for a good trade to upgrade the team and couldn't come up with anything. That is part of the reason he pulled the trigger on the AI trade, he couldn't find anything else better. And if Rip's game has become 'extremely limited', why would a team be inclined to trade a player that will help Detroit for Rip? Detroit has huge holes at the 4 and 5 position. Kwame Brown is the only center on the roster! Spending all this time on Gordon for a luxury position makes no sense to me.
posted By Rocketfan2503, 1 July 2009 1:42:45 PM
I was hoping BG would be signed to the Pistons so Rip would be on the market and the Rockets could make a play for him, but with Yao out for who knows I don't think they'll bother now.
posted By The Distinguished Pimp, 1 July 2009 1:42:51 PM
No way Portland can keep four small forwards on the roster, y'all. They'll probably trade two of them or one and the Rudy kid.
posted By T, 1 July 2009 1:47:06 PM
Dre Miller is a bum. He has never won anything, literally never won ANYTHING. Let him walk.
posted By Melodeath1221, 1 July 2009 1:48:08 PM
WHY DO YOU ALL THINK THAT RIP MUST BE TRADED TO ACCOMMODATE GORDON? Dont you fools realize, Gordon while an Amazing Scorer, isnt nearly as versatile as Rip? Not to mention Over all Who Makes a Better Back Cour? Stuckey and Rip Or Stuckey and Gordon. The anwser is obviously Stuck and Rip. A Ben Gordon Stuckey bc would take away the point of having a Big PG. I mean Cause then Stuckey would simply be guarded by Sg's. I believe that Detroit could sign him as another threat off the bench. It was proven in Chicago that he plays better and His Team Benefits with him off the bench, Not To mention Ben Gordon would greatly benefit him self by playing along side Will Bynum. Oh and i for got Rip could even move over to the 3 spot. If anyone is in jeopardy this season on the pistons its Tayshawn Prince. Prince has let us down 3 years in the post season, and was just abysmal last post season.
posted By hey Pimp, 1 July 2009 1:55:00 PM
NO WAY Portland trades Rudy. The only way that happens is if it's for a bonafide SUPERSTAR point guard, ie Deron Williams, Tony Parker, or Chris Paul. The guy makes too much money for the team via merchandise sales, ratings, putting butts in seats, etc.
posted By Stones Fan, 1 July 2009 2:18:09 PM
Listen guys I grew up as a rip fan, but his game really is limited. How many other all star shooting guards can you name that can't take the ball to the basket and can't hit an open three. He is great at the mid range shot off a screen, but Stuckey is not the type of point guard that can get him the ball there yet. Dumars wants a young back court with two guys that can handle the ball and score from anywhere on the court in anyway...that's what a Gordon/Stuckey combo does that Hamilton can't. Gordon is awful defensively, but so was Hamilton at first, hopefully Gordon will catch on.
posted By Stones Fan, 1 July 2009 2:20:28 PM
My guess is that they can't trade him for a great player like CB or Amare, but most likely for someone else's mildly bad contract like Chris Kaman, Tyson Chandler, or even Samuel Dalembert.
posted By Jason Fleming, 1 July 2009 2:35:00 PM
@melodeath - The only problem with the theory - which I don't necessarily disagree with - is that Gordon will be making at least $8 million a year to start, unless he signs for much less than everyone expects. That's not bench player money...
posted By Melodeath1221, 1 July 2009 3:25:36 PM
Yeah i know that, but I just feel that hes a much better fit on the bench.
Thats why basket ball is so Interesting, it doesnt mean anything even if you have the talent but not the right fit. In basket ball the right combination matters alot.
Tho ill be just sick to my stomach if our starting back court is Stuckey and Gordon, and rip gets traded for the likes of Tyson Chandler.
Everyone seems to love Tyson although hes not even better that Kwame and hes been playing with like the best Pg in the league, and is 6 million more. Dont people wonder why hes being Shopped?
If gordon is forced to be a starter i say Make Will Bynum The Starting Pg, with Gordon, and move rip to the 3.Then you can move tay instead Rip is just better and will always be better than tay.
posted By Joe D, 1 July 2009 3:34:32 PM
Rip will be heading to Phoenix, with Daye, for Amare once we get ben signed.
posted By Alexboii, 1 July 2009 3:36:49 PM
C'mon Sixers! Just do a sign-and-trade of Miller to Portland for Blake and Webster in a realistic deal. That way Sixers can finally get a true 2 in Webster, should he be healthy this season. I just don't want to see Kapono at the 2 since Iggy can only play the 3.
posted By Pistons, 1 July 2009 6:52:57 PM
ESPN is now reporting that both Gordon and Villenueva agreed to terms. Now the Pistons just have to find some people willing to play defense.
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