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posted By Mr. Juan / Your Warlock, 6 May 2008 6:31:16 AM
Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, Make sure to bring your pitch fork to the MVP ceremonies, eh Tommy.
posted By pocholo, 6 May 2008 8:06:21 AM
these are just stats. Chris Paul can get these numbers because he is the pointguard, he has the ball all the time. CP3 is good, but Kobe is greater. If you argue numbers,CP3 may lead in steals, but kobe averages a steal also per game, but kobe also blocks shot. Can CP3 block shots?
Look also the stats on who is more clutch. Kobe would eventually be the one taking the gamewinner. Kobe is the best closer in the league period.
posted By jesse, 6 May 2008 9:02:39 AM
that is just your opinion. if mvp's were based solely on stats lebron would've won it this year. dont take anything away from kobe's season that this is a lifetime achievement award or anything. kobe earned the award, respect it and shut up!
posted By helboninho, 6 May 2008 9:21:28 AM
@pocholo
It works the other way around as well. >KB couldn't get Pauls numbers if he played pg.
posted By dont hate, 6 May 2008 10:58:46 AM
u sound like a hater his is very good and put up great numbers but if its all about stats then all those cats u put him up to in the past would have won as well and kobe would have 3 or 4 by now it was a close race and kobe won out get over it stop hateing its over u dunce and if we go by stats give me labrons over pauls every day this year who had better stats then bron all around this year not paul
posted By Sunny, 6 May 2008 11:33:50 AM
Very boring article. Sure.. its all bla bla bla bla...
posted By Tony, 6 May 2008 11:41:11 AM
If the MVP was based sololy on Statistics -- like it was until recent years, Kobe would have 2 or 3 MVP's by now.
posted By Boost, 6 May 2008 11:48:47 AM
oh please shut up mr article writer
posted By namotuman, 6 May 2008 12:01:51 PM
cp3's numbers are fine and dandy. they are legit, but not once in your article did you mention any injuries. that's because his team has been largely INTACT the WHOLE season. kb24 has endured a knee blow out on bynum, ankle sprains to walton and gasol, not to mention his own pinkie injury he has played thru. the number of games lost to injury by key teammates of kb24's is mind boggling. so, go back to the drawing board and throw those numbers into the equation......
posted By Tommy Beer, 6 May 2008 12:02:24 PM
Why is it that anytime someone makes an argument for a player other than Kobe – it is b/c they are a “hater.” Are all Kobe supporters “CP3 Haters?,” Can’t it just be an opinion Paul is more ‘valuable’ than Kobe? As I said, Kobe had a great season. He is the best player in the NBA. But that does not mean he deserves the MVP award this season.
posted By dondi, 6 May 2008 12:03:40 PM
definetly your last name is very accurate that's what you have being drinking when you wrote this article BEER BEER BEER
posted By Tommy Beer, 6 May 2008 12:03:52 PM
I am not saying that Paul deserves the MVP based solely on his statistics. In fact I state that specifically. The combination of Paul’s other-worldly stats, in addition to the undeniable role he played in New Orleans emergence to the league’s elite, is the reason he should win MVP. However, we could endlessly debate things like “who makes their teammates better,” or who “has a greater impact on the game” all day without ever coming close to an answer. But stats are useful because they are quantifiable. And CP3’s numbers are off-the-charts…
posted By Jack Bauer, 6 May 2008 12:13:53 PM
STOP IT!,...STOP IT!...Just STOP IT!!!...Im just sick of the HATE'N...STOP THE FISHING! Looking for EXCUSE, after EXCUSE, after EXCUSE to NOT give Kobe MVP honors. First its whom ever finishes with the best record. But because the EAST was so bad overall and we were witnessing an historical playoff race in in the WEST, it became all about who finishes the WEST on top,(Kobe did that). So then its who makes his teammates better(Kobe did that) AND so forth... TRUTH IS THAT because of Kobe's fiasco in Colorado there are some of you that just won't let it go. And instead of being a Man/Woman about it and not beating around the real issue at hand, writers mask their personal feelings with bulls*%t like this and throw out numbers, stats,formulas and redefining what it means to be MVP all as a masquerade to the SIMPLE fact that they just don't like the guy for their own personal reasons. Kobe is the MVP and has been for some time now...ACCEPT IT!!!
posted By david, 6 May 2008 12:37:13 PM
Mr. Beer, stop drinking and start watching NBA.
posted By Bill Ingram, 6 May 2008 12:42:32 PM
As I've said many times in articles and on boards, there's a great argument to be made for CP3. If the Hornets had finished one game ahead of the Lakers instead of the other way around, it would be an air-tight argument. When the Lakers finished with the best record, it gave Kobe a slight - ***ever so slight*** - advantage.
posted By rasaan86, 6 May 2008 12:54:14 PM
Finally somebody who is on the same page as me when it comes to stats, I been saying all along that cp3 is the MVP his numbers improved, kobes numbers dipped off, and also he was crying and complaining about his team in the begginning of the season while paul was just a sole leader
posted By kobe bryant, 6 May 2008 1:47:55 PM
im MVP --- =)
posted By HC, 6 May 2008 2:38:39 PM
You're nut!
posted By Sumeet, 6 May 2008 2:45:48 PM
stats? you're talking about stats? you realize Dirk put up his worst stats last year and got the MVP? it ain't stats, otherwise LeBron would've won this year.
posted By Marc, 6 May 2008 6:33:23 PM
ummmm.....u guys really hate Kobe. Paul has nice stats..that's nice. but he only played like this after the allstar weekend. Kobe has been consistent all year. Lakers were a top team even when Kwame n smush were around...The Hornets didnt have West or Peja miss a month...i bet you if they did they would be playing the Lakers right now. kobe scored 4 50 games to keep the lakers in the 7th seed last year...he didnt get the award. For Lakers to be on top this year..in a tight western race...he deserved it. not to mention the hornets had it but the Lakers spanked them n the Spurs. Kobe is the mvp n nothing u say will change it. So move on. Dirk wont it when the mavs went on a good run but his stats weren't that good. Analyze that.
posted By Lakerfanatic!, 6 May 2008 10:11:00 PM
Kobe is in Michael Jordan status right now! He is about to run off 5 or 6 championships. CP3 and Lebron and everybody else are all going to be his ---es,These 2008 Lakers are starting to remind me of the 1991 bulls. They have all the pieces,and this will not be Kobe's last MVP, So suck it up and take it like a man.
posted By Kobe4MVP oh wait he always is, 6 May 2008 11:41:18 PM
this article is very boring. statistics MEAN NOTHING!!! like some said if it was all based on stats then kobe should have won MVP 3 years in a row already. after all the drama with the Lakers this season and with all these injuries the lakers still managed to get 1st seed. no matter what argument saying chris paul for mvp. in the end when it all comes down all fingers point to KB24, not some reaching in, traveling point guard in cp3.
posted By THA!, 7 May 2008 1:11:01 PM
I don't see how you can give an MVP award to someone who wanted out from the team. Yes Kobe had a great year. But what kind of message are we sending if we reward him in this situation? If anything, Kobe should've been Most Improved Player based on how he turned things around personally/professionally and how he's elevated his team's play.
posted By Paul, Rialto, CA, 7 May 2008 1:48:42 PM
You don't happen to have a daughter that works in Denver do you? She used to work at a Hotel? Some resort? Cute girl, nice, but made some bad decisions maybe? Ring a bell?
posted By Andy, 7 May 2008 2:57:44 PM
I don’t think the stats go the distance though. Paul’s presence makes his teammates better players, and he’s intimidating to the other team. Kobe’s intimidating to the other team, but I don’t think that his teammates are better than they would be with another shooting guard.
Watch Morris Peterson (career underachiever and guy that you just can’t count on) when he’s on the floor with Paul working off picks and squaring on the curls. Watch Stojakovic as he actually tries to play defense to be a part of the team at both ends. Watch David West’s transition from 3rd tier prospect to deserving All-Star. Watch Tyson Chandler score on alley oops and never have to take fade away jumpers out of the post or work hard to get buckets, he can now focus solely on defense and let Paul give him scores.
posted By poyorick, 7 May 2008 4:26:01 PM
While I think there can be some very legitimate arguments made for Chris Paul winning the MVP, I think this article does a poor job of making one.
The writer cites many impressive statistics but doesn't put them into the context of an MVP argument. The body of the argument doesn't match up with what it claims to show. The statistics cited generally tend to show that CP3 is an excellent point guard. In fact, if you replaced the introduction (first 4 paragraphs) with something like "Chris Paul is the best PG the NBA has seen in at least 15 years" you would have a much better article (at least in terms of logical flow).
Also, the "bonus section" hurts the credibility of the arguments. The writer is going beyond the scope of the award (regular season) to prove his point. I mean if Chris Paul wins an MVP in 2011, will we also cite that as how he deserved it in 2008?
Finally, if you really want to make a solid MVP argument you could follow something like this.
1) Introduce MVP argument (you can list possible candidates here, which the writer does here)
2) Define MVP (this is where you put what the MVP means, or at least the criteria you are going to be using). The writer sort of does this, but weakly. He writes: "the one thing we can clearly quantify is the statistical bottom line."
3) Apply "facts" to your criteria. You can use stats here (like CP3s incredible 20/10 avg) or other observations (like how KG has "transformed" the Celtics D and attitude).
You also have to address why the other choices do not meet the MVP criteria as well as your candidate. At this point if you are going to dismiss a candidate, give a reason why. For example if you are going to say that LeBron James doesn't deserve the MVP, you can't just say "Bron had a good year but he didn't deserve the MVP." You should say something like "Bron had a good year, but didn't deserve the MVP BECAUSE ________________ (fill in the blank). You can fill in the blank with whatever you want, but the most relevant and thorough reasons will provide you best argument (for example: "his team didn't win nearly as many games as the other candidates' teams" or "he doesn't play at both ends of the floor like Kobe, CP3 and KG do").
The more thorough and relevant this section, the better the argument (This article has some length, but the facts don't quite paint the picture because they don't really link the stats to most valuable. Also the writer doesn't explain how the stats of others fall short).
4) You can confidently state your conclusion.
Of course this is just a guideline and you have to use your discretion (some arguments involve 4 guys, some only 2 guys). You don't have to rule out every single player, but by addressing other players you are essentially addressing the weaknesses of your argument proactively.
Check out Bill Simmons MVP argument and you'll see this structure. He's a great example of how to make a good sports arguments.
posted By Adam, 7 May 2008 4:32:10 PM
Finally! I've been saying this since the MVP debate heated up. The stats don't lie.. CP3 is having one of the best seasons of all time at the point guard position. And if you do your research, you'll also notice that Kobe's stats are down in almost every statistical category from last year. He's averaging the same amount of assists as he did the year before when he took more shots. Another thing worth noting, is that the Lakers went from middle of the pack in the Western Conference to top dog only AFTER the trade for Pau Gasol. Coincidence? I think not.
posted By Adam, 7 May 2008 4:37:23 PM
And, people sure are quick to forget about the way Kobe acted at the beginning of the year before he was on a contending team. He basically acted like a 5 yr. old in a toy store, stomping his feet, and holding his breath until someone in the front office either got him out of L.A. or brought another piece to team Kobe. He publicly called out his team, his front office, and his owner. He was booed on opening night in L.A.!! Hopefully, though the Hornets and Lakers will meet up in the West Finals, and this debate can be resolved.
posted By Stu, 7 May 2008 4:55:51 PM
Great article... I think you just need to ignore the Kobe fans. Arguing with them only makes the stronger, and you're never going to change their mind.
If Paul continues to play like he did this year, it won't be long before he has more MVP awards than Kobe.
posted By mladboy, 7 May 2008 5:38:33 PM
Ok, I tried to read all the comments, but got bored. I think most of you people are extremists. Kobe Bryant has had his probably best season yet, and do you know why? Because he's finally learned to share the ball and actually trust his teammates. That, however, does not mean he deserves to be the MVP. LBJ and CP3 are both extraordinary players, who are even at this point in their careers, better than Bryant. That's why I'm really disgusted at the fact that they will not get the MVP award simply because they're too young, and Kobe's been in the league so long and hasn't got it. I don't care about his "incident", I'm interested in his game, and it's not MVP game, compared to those two guys.
But you know what - LeBron and Chris are going to keep playing and getting even better, and in a couple of years when Kobe's a non-factor in the league, they will be basketball deities, shutting up all of you...
posted By Thomas K, 7 May 2008 8:37:00 PM
I do agree with you only if Kobe was not a basketball player. CP3 is a great point guard and you are so right when you compare him to Nash, 2 MVP trophies that he did not deserve you have to make your teammates better on both side of the floor. Now lets compare him To Kobe this year it was very close to call because I for one would have probably given the vote to CP3 but then I watched them both on the defensive end and I gave the edge to Kobe, Sorry CP3 maybe next year.
posted By Jack R., 7 May 2008 9:08:09 PM
Blah. The Lakers won the Western Conference despite being one of the most injured teams in the league this year. No one else accomplished what Kobe accomplished this year.
posted By krc, 8 May 2008 8:19:05 AM
i'm with you tommy. kobe had a great year no doubt about it. but chris paul is my mvp maybe for the single fact that hes hands down the most exciting player to watch this year. the kid has skills which never fail to amaze me.
posted By Law, 8 May 2008 10:03:40 AM
Mr Beer, do you know how to play basketball? Else, let Kobe teach you..
posted By Tommy Beer, 8 May 2008 10:43:12 AM
Thanks for the spirited responses everyone. Kobe is such a polarizing figure, it is amazing. Let’s hope that CP3 and Kobe both take their teams to the Conference Finals – so they can square off and intensify this debate…
posted By Zander, 8 May 2008 4:15:53 PM
Very good article to show the other side of the debate. Sorry Tommy but the rest of the world knows that when it comes to educated fans, laker fans come in dead last, so god forbid you mention their idol isnt the greatest thing ever, and they will lose it. Kobe had a GOOD year. Gasol made the difference. I would have voted for Paul, but then again I would have voted for Kobe the year Dirk and Nash won (nashs first one) Still its absurd to think youre hating because the stats show Paul was better. STATS MEAN SOMETHING. Its quantifiable evidence. And please stop with the best closer BS. Stats also show Kobe isnt very good. He just shoots 20 game winners a year, makes 4 but those four whip the delusional Laker fans into a frenzy. Yes Kobe should have won an MVP. Just not this years.
posted By Mr. Juan Your Warlock, 13 May 2008 2:41:57 AM
To Imply Paul's overall stats are better than Kobe's is strictly fools gold ... Here are the Facts using "TOTALS/AVERAGES" [Points: Kobe 2323/28.33-Paul 1684/20.05] [Rebounds: Kobe 517/6.30-Paul 321/4.00] [Assists: Paul 925/11.56-Kobe 441/5.38] [Steals: Paul 217/2.70-Kobe 151/1.84] [Blocks: Kobe 40/.50-Paul 4/.05] ... During the entire year, Kobe out scored Paul by 40%, out rebounded Paul by 60%, and blocked 10 times the amount of shots Paul did. In contrast, Paul registered slightly over 2 times Kobe's assists totals, and registered 43% more steals. Percentages for all intent and purposes were a wash: (FG%, 3PT%, FT%) with Kobe attempting a much higher percentage on all 3 categories ... And lets not forget-(NEVER FORGET)-who is the better lock down defender or overall defensive player for that matter... need I even say! ... This Article is completely and totally bias, presented for fools to ponder ... FOOLS GOLD, Y'ALL lemon juice BAK NAU HEAR!
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