NBA Salary Cap Chat With Larry Coon 8/3/12

1. John Seymour

   Hey Larry,

   What is the CBA rule regarding why the lakers or nets cannot sign dwight in free agency next year with a sign and trade?

   • Larry Coon

     Starting next season a team over the apron ($4 million above the tax line) can’t receive a player in a sign-and-trade transaction. Right now the Lakers are $24.04 million over the tax line, and even their signed players for next year take them $6.1 million over this year’s tax line. Even if Bynum leaves as a free agent, the Lakers will still be over the apron. Likewise, Brooklyn is set to be about $15.2 million over the tax line.

     So in all likelihood, both the Lakers and Nets will be over the apron next summer, and unable to receive Howard in a sign-and-trade.

2. LA in LA

   I don’t think Magic will have Dwight Howard on their roster when the season starts if for no other reason than it would extremely dampen their chances of getting a top 3 pick in the 2013 draft.
   Can you imagine if they wait until an hour before the deadline to trade him for a deal they could have done in the offseason, end up with like the 8th pick, and watch Nerlen Noels, Muhammad, and the #3 pick go out and look like franchise players? They’d be pissed.

   • Larry Coon

     I don’t think they will start the season with Howard on the roster if for no other reason than they don’t want a repeat of the circus that followed them last season.

     They need to trade him, since there’s too much of a risk in losing him to free agency. They can’t count on the availability of a sign-and-trade.

     They likely won’t be able to get as much for him at the trade deadline as they can right now, and as I said, they’d have to live through the same circus again.

     Teams like the Lakers and Rockets are on hold, but pretty soon they’re going to decide to move on, just as Brooklyn did. For example, the Lakers have Devin Ebanks sitting there waiting, because he’d be involved as a sign-and-trade. They can’t leave him sitting out there too much longer.

     The Magic appear to be trying to improve their return for Howard, but at some point they’re just going to have to accept that the best deal on the table is the best deal on the table.

3. Jeffrey

   Could you see C.J. Miles signing for the veteran minimum with the Brooklyn Nets? If I recall correctly, he and Deron are extremely close and he would fill that back-up 3 spot for them as well. Would also give them some athleticism coming off the bench.

   • Larry Coon

     Miles agreed with Cleveland.

4. Jay

   What will chicago cap space look like at the end of the 2013/14 season

   • Larry Coon

     As of this moment they’re committed to about $68.5 million, including their team option on Jimmy Butler. This will likely be over the cap but under the luxury tax.

5. paprikau

   Will the lakers be able To get meeks or cj miles? Who do they need more? Lastly what would happen to ebanks and the other young reserves?

   • Larry Coon

     Miles is signing with Cleveland.

     I heard about some interest in Meeks, and he would be a reasonable pickup. He’d be competing with the other Laker reserves for minutes.

6. shaqnosis vs the worm

   Would dfish be a good hire for the hornets, not only as a back up pg but as a mentor and assistant coach in n out of the hardwood? Lastly i believe the wolves will be the number 3 or 4 in the west standings higher than the clippz. With me?

   • Larry Coon

     I don’t think Fish wants to be in a situation where he isn’t making a deep playoff run. That said, if he now wants to make a transition to coaching (last time I asked him about it was a couple years ago, and at the time he said he wasn’t interested) then he should sign where it would facilitate that transition, and NOR would be such a place.

     Not really with you on Minny yet, but I haven’t taken a detailed look at everyone’s lineups (still too soon for that) to try to figure out where everyone will wind up.

7. ted the talking teddybear

   Why didnt weems able to get an nba contract? Is it because of the new cba that teams are becoming cheap and reluctant to sign players? Lastly why do.u think grant hill signed with the clippz which is deep in the guard/ sf position compared to the lakers where he can be a starting sf or give kobe some rest at times at the 2….?

   • Larry Coon

     Weems is probably a minimum salary player in the NBA. I don’t know the deal he got from CSKA Moscow, but I imagine it was for more.

8. TJ

   Why is apron $4m above the lux tax line? Why not at $3.000001m above line so it’s just above the miniMLE?

   Vet being paid $100k above the min counts as what against cap (is it only bare bare min that gets better deal for team cap-wise)?

   If Clips extend Caron by $1 dollar more and one more year is that possible? Ever possible to rework contract amount for future garanteed year to create a smaller per year salary?

   Can one sign and trade CP next year? When, if ever, is this not possible under CBA? ((There is a new rule related to this. Does this new rule under CBA that is being phased in work as intended do we think?))

   And why not allow teams to combine some specific exceptions with under the cap room? Seems like it would be a nice reward for good salary management? Maybe just one exception with under cap space room should be allowed in next CBA?

   • Larry Coon

     Taking your questions in order:

     * The league wanted the system penalties (smaller mid-level, no bi-annual, can’t receive players in a sign-and-trade starting in 2013-14) to occur right at the tax line. The players association wanted it to occur at a higher amount. $4 million above the tax line is where they compromised.

     * The player counts as his actual salary. League reimbursement only happens with one-year contracts at the minimum salary.

     * So you’re saying you wan the Clips to give Butler $1 in 2014-15? That’s below the minimum salary.

     * Teams cannot renegotiate contracts to give a player less money.

     * It’s possible for the Clips to sign-and-trade Paul next year. The rest of this question was too vague to answer, sorry.

     * The whole idea behind an exception is that it’s an exception to the rule that a team must be under the cap. If a team isn’t under the cap (i.e., if they have cap room), then by definition they don’t need an exception.

9. Jazzaholic

   Raja Bell’s contract last year was toxic and untradable. This year he agreed to a buyout in lieu of amnesty. But, Toxic Raja has now decided he doesn’t want the buyout. The Jazz won’t pay luxury tax or get under the cap, so, why not tell him to stay home and they’ll waive him Mar 1st, when he no longer can join a playoff team? Or, do you have a better solution?

   • Larry Coon

     Bell’s buyout would have saved the Jazz some money, but that is all. They’re over the cap by $8.6 million, so it’s not like they were going to rush out and sign free agents. And they’re under the luxury tax even with Bell on the roster, so his contract isn’t costing them extra money in tax.

     A buyout is usually a quid pro quo — you take a little less in exchange for gaining your free agency. If he’s not willing to take less, then there’s no reason to grant him his free agency.

     His usefulness as a player is just about over, so I can see a string on DNP-CDs in his future.

10. Dan

    Does the Trade kicker in Brook Lopez make it easier to take bad bad contracts from Orlando?

    • Larry Coon

      No. Lopez has a trade kicker, but it’s meaningless this year since his salary is already at the maximum. It will have no effect on a trade if he’s traded this year.

11. JHyoBeat

    Hey Larry, what are salary cap holds and how do you get rid of those holds? I noticed the Lakers have a ridiculous number of them.

    • Larry Coon

      Are you talking about free agent cap holds?

      When a team has Bird rights to a player, they “reserve” some of the cap room to which the player is expected to re-sign. This prevents teams from using all their cap room to sign other teams’ free agents before turning their attention to their own free agents.

      Free agent cap holds stay with the team until the player signs elsewhere or are renounced. So for players who have retired (and therefore haven’t signed elsewhere), they can stay with the team for a long time. They don’t matter to the team unless they actually need the cap room, so for teams that typically stay over the cap for a long time (like the Lakers) there can be lots of old players with cap holds.

      The Lakers currently have cap holds for Matt Barnes, Devin Ebanks, Troy Murphy (all 2012), Joe Smith, Theo Ratliff (both 2011), Ira Newble (2008), Shammond Williams (2007), Jim Jackson (2006), Karl Malone, Horace Grant (both 2004), Brian Shaw (2003), Mitch Richmond (2002), Ron Harper (2001) and John Salley (2000). Quite a roster of players in its prime!

      If the team ever wants to get rid of the cap holds in order to reclaim the cap space, it can simply renounce them. But since the Lakers are still way over the cap even with these holds, there’s no point. They don’t count toward the luxury tax, or anything like that.

      Note that it used to be possible to re-sign these players to include in a sign-and-trade. In fact, the Lakers completed the Pau Gasol trade by signing-and-trading Aaron McKie in this manner. So that was one additional reason to keep these cap holds around. But with the new CBA they changed the sign-and-trade rules, so that the player must have played the preceding season with the team. The only players the Lakers can sign-and-trade now are Barnes, Ebanks and Murphy.

12. Jeremy A

    If you have a player under contract for 2 more years. Can you give him a contract extension or do you have to wait for the current contract to expire?

    • Larry Coon

      If you wait for the current contract to expire, then by definition it’s not an extension, it’s a free agent signing.

      A contract can be extended from the third anniversary of its signing up until the June 30 right before it is due to expire.

13. GSWLoco

    W’s just signed Landry, Rush both playher options in year 2 as well as taking over Jarret Jack’s 1 year 5M. I think they want to keep all 3 next year, but I can see Landry or Rush wanting more if they do well. Can W’s renegotiate those contracts next year?

    • Larry Coon

      If they have player options then Landry & Rush could opt-out and re-sign with the Warriors next summer. However they will nave non-Bird rights, and can only sign them to a 20% raise, the mid-level exception, or to the extent of their cap room, whichever is greatest. They will have full Bird rights to Jack, and can give him whatever amount they want, up to the maximum.

14. Octagon

    If Dwight Howard signed an extension (hypothetically), would he get a 7.5% raise or a 4.5% raise. If 4.5%, why?

    • Larry Coon

      Regular extensions can provide 7.5% raises.

      However, an extend-and-trade can provide just 4.5% raises. And to keep teams from getting around this rule by extending the player then trading him in two separate transactions, trades and extensions have to be separated by at least six months. If a player is extended and given more than 4.5% raises, he can’t be traded for six months, and if he’s traded, he can’t be extended with more than 4.5% raises for six months.

      The same rule applies to the length of an extension, with four total years (including the rest of the current contract) being allowed in a regular extension, and three total years in an extend-and-trade.

15. Jared

    Would the Spurs be able to obtain a big man to help alongside Duncan?

    • Larry Coon

      Who’s left who is an RC Buford kind of player, and who would really help the team?

16. brett

    Hear anything about Josh Childress? Is the money he would receive from a new team the same in every case? If so, he should be waiting for the best situation that presents, correct?

    • Larry Coon

      I haven’t heard anything about him specifically. I doubt he’s more than a minimum salary player right now, given the way salaries have been shaking out this summer. And yes, he should be looking at the situation.

17. Ken

    When will we know whether NBA will allow 13 active roster spots this year (2012-13)? Thanks

    • Larry Coon

      I believe it’s already been decided but not formally approved by the board of governors. I know they DIDN’T address it when they met in Las Vegas a couple weeks ago.

18. Mary

    Who are your top 5 bang for the buck pick ups this summer? I think Dallas did I better job than people give them credit for. Do you think that a team can win using a moneyball philosophy given the penalties in the new cba?

    • Larry Coon

      Off the top of my head:

      Ray Allen
      Elton Brand
      Tim Duncan
      Antawn Jamison
      Jason Kidd
      Courtney Lee
      OJ Mayo
      Steve Nash
      Luis Scola

      …most of whom are older players taking a steep discount near the end of their careers.

      I think a moneyball philosophy will be even more important given the stiffer penalties (not just the luxury tax, but the system restrictions) in the new CBA. Dallas has been ahead of the curve on this.

19. Rob

    Last question, sorry!

    You said, teams cannot renegotiate to give player less money. Then how did Hedo Turkoglu go from a fully guaranteed last year to only 6 million guaranteed?

    • Larry Coon

      Changing the salary and changing the guarantee are two different things. Teams and players can negotiate a change in the guarantee, but this only comes into play if the team waives the player.

20. Drom John

    Who could afford to pay K-Mart more than vet minimum? Would any of those teams want K-Mart?

    • Larry Coon

      I didn’t see too much to get excited about when I watched him with the Clippers last season. The Clippers weren’t very excited about the prospect of bringing him back. I don’t think he’s more than a minimum salary player at this point, especially given all the other players who are signing for the minimum.

21. Lakeshow

    Any insight on whether or not the DWIGHTmare ends this weekend as previously reported?

    • Larry Coon

      Or LAST weekend, as previously reported?

      Or the weekend before that, as previously reported?

      Or by July 10, as previously reported?

      Or at last season’s trade deadline, as previously reported?

      I don’t put much stock in previous reports. Unless someone’s talking directly to Rob Hennigan, Matt Lloyd, or someone else in the Magic front office who knows exactly what’s going on, or they’re talking to Daryl Morey, Mitch Kupchak, or whomever in whichever front office is also involved, they really have no way of knowing if there’s going to be a deal or not.

      And as we saw last year with the Chris Paul trade, even when we think there’s a deal in place, it often turns out not to be the case.

22. DocSimon

    Will Orlando, after it’s all said and done and finally trading Howard for something, regret not accepting the Net’s initial trade offer from last season in terms of what they will actually get back in return now?

    • Larry Coon

      I think they should have moved him last season at the trade deadline. If they had done a deal with the Nets prior to the Gerald Wallace trade, the pick would have turned into Damian Lillard (and at the time, it even could have turned into the #1 pick).

23. Nolan's Uppercut

    By my math, I see 6 teams that are currently under the cap for next year (HOU, PHO, CHA, CLE, WAS, POR by a small margin). What is the primary advantage, if any, of holding on to cap space once the season starts? To be able to take on bad contracts from other teams in a trade?

    • Larry Coon

      For one, it saves the team money. You have the other factor right — it gives the team more flexibility to make deals during the season.

      However, the minimum team salary went up this season — teams now have to spend at least 85% of the salary cap.